Sunday, January 27, 2008

Doughbob vs. Megan

Have you heard? They got into a huge spitball fight during lunch the other day. I think Doughy has a crush on Megan and doesn't know how else to get her attention.
Shorter Doughbob Loadpants: She didn't read the book, so she's a poopyhead, but there's some bits which I can interpret as sort of in agreement with me.
I'm actually kind of glad Gavin or Bradrocket will likely have their own take on this exchange at some point at S,N!, as it means I don't have to try to give Jonah's deluded ramblings extensive coverage. Fuck, he actually wrote this

Even today, "nationalist" and "socialist" are pretty much interchangeable terms.
I... that's above my pay grade. This is a good example of why I've only read about half of Jonah's book, and just can't finish it.
That said, Megan would certainly agree with this
... look at the Ivy League, look at Georgetown, look at the Ford foundation, public libraries, English departments, the mainstream media, museums, main line churches, the AMA, ABA and about a million other three letter acronymned organizations. These were all co-opted by the left to one extent or another and now they are part of a liberal gleichschaltung where political correctness rules and deviation from "progressive" ideas is increasingly treated as a thought-crime.
Megan might defend Ivy League English Departments, though she also effectively slanders them with her work, but she definitely sees a "liberal gleichschaltung" making academia a place unwelcome to people who make shitty arguments that run counter to basic empirical reality. Damned elitists.
And now, we come to Megan's response to Jonah's response to her non-review of a book she didn't read. Truly, a clash of titans. To begin, this might be the funniest and most unintentionally revealing sentence fragment Megan has ever written
Some of his argument is a misreading of my post, perhaps because I was unclear--when I said that
... alright, maybe it's not that funny, but Megan nicely saying Jonah misread and she was unclear strikes me as amusing.
And then comes this
I think Goldberg is actually making a valid point, which is that Fascism!=Conservatism. Fascism was a compendium of left and right wing ideology; part of what gave the movement its power was its co-option of (to my mind) some of the most appalling elements of each. The liberals who think that "Liberal Fascism" is somehow more definitionally stupid than "Conservative Fascism" are, I think, patting themselves on the back a little too hard. They didn't call themselves "National Socialists" for no reason, and pointing this out is, so far as I am concerned, God's work.
Lemme repeat part of that
They didn't call themselves "National Socialists" for no reason, and pointing this out is, so far as I am concerned, God's work.
Megan, despite.... reality, thinks Nazis were socialists. She doesn't truly disagree with Jonah so much as have muddled crackpot theories based on personal grudges of her own. To wit
But though I am very much all for the goal of stopping people from deploying the term fascist against any conservative they happen to disagree with--and particularly libertarians, who, will their horror of both state intervention in the economy and nationalism, are literally as far from fascism politically as it is possible to get--ultimately, I just don't like inflammatory titles. I find things like "a politics of meaning" creepy, but calling it fascist isn't going to do anything except give a flutter of satisfaction to people who already hate Hillary Clinton, and alienate her sympathizers.
Jonah's mistake is in writing the book from the perspective that it's movement conservatives who need defense from charges of fascism. This does not involve Megan, and thus is superfluous to... well, everything. Libertarians need to be defended from being called fascist, especially those who coincidentally happen to think corporations should be allowed to all but replace Federal governments. Besides, you risk alienating people you might otherwise fool.

13 comments:

Giles R said...

From the end of his response: "Anyway, I'm sorry this ran on so long. I'm still not sure it's worth trying to respond to all this stuff. But once I get started, it's hard to stop."

It's funny how he can't help but write such a long and detailed reply to Megan's idle prattlings, even though she admits that she hasn't even read the book and probably never will, while Dave Niewert, who has read the book and has written tens of thousands of well-referenced words about it is smugly dismissed as "banging his spoon on his highchair a lot because my book undercuts his whole reason for being."

Clearly Niewert needs to find a new reason for being before he can engage in an argument at Jonah's level. Might I suggest humane meat proselytism?

D. Aristophanes said...

giles - I was thinking exactly the same thing. D-Load is so transparent, innit?

Fats Durston said...

You missed the most fucked up statement of all:

So, as I've said countless times, I'm fine with calling national-socialism "right-wing socialism." But it's still socialism, which in my book is quite incandescently a phenomenon of the left.

Yes, and I'm fine with calling Bolshevism "left-wing conservatism," because it really duplicated the conservative ideas governing: dictatorship, chauvinistic nationalism, and lack of the people's self-determination. So, yes, it's left-wing, but it's also conservative, which is fluorescently a phenomenon of the right.

Right is Left! Left is Right! Doubleplusgood analysis by myself! Of course, this all means that the left is evil.

Clever Pseudonym said...

Why am I suddenly overcome with the urge to rent Alien vs. Predator?

Robert Green said...

it's like Clash of the Titans only without harryhausen--only the dialogue! a

NutellaonToast said...

My favorite line is:
"I think Goldberg is actually making a valid point, which is that Fascism!=Conservatism."

As if people need told that when someone is using hyperbolic rhetoric and not actual descriptive terminology, especially re: fascism.

M. Bouffant said...

Quite enjoying how careful, detailed researcher Jonah can't even spell McMegan's last name (first link) though he's "generally in sympathy w/ her..."

What a transparent tool.

Trilateral Chairman said...

Wow. Let me see here. Quoth Jonah:

"I'm fine with calling national-socialism 'right-wing socialism.' But it's still socialism, which in my book is quite incandescently a phenomenon of the left."

So it's a right-wing left-wing phenomenon. Geez, how could anyone fail to understand that? Jonah's critics must be disingenuous.

Trilateral Chairman said...

Bonus Goldberg:

"The one area where the Nazis were closer to contemporary American conservatives than they are to contemporary American liberals is in the area of nationalism."

and then

"As for nationalism, I am still flummoxed as to why so many smart people simply repeat by rote the idea that nationalism is 'right-wing,' particularly by American standards."

brad said...

In retrospect, I should've snarked at Megan's insistence that she's totally as far from being a Nazi as can be.
Has Megan just created the reverse Godwin?

ed said...

In retrospect, I should've snarked at Megan's insistence that she's totally as far from being a Nazi as can be.
Has Megan just created the reverse Godwin?


As I noted on Sadly, No!, yes, you should. But the punch line is that she's not really a libertarian, but a Glibertarian. And whatnot.

spencer said...

I weep for the future.

Kathleen said...

I think the whole impetus behind Megan's post was to use the "!=" construction. As a libertarian and an economist, she is required by her contract with the Atlantic to pepper her posts with such nomenclature at a ratio of 3:1. If only her keyboard could make the three-dot 'therefore', her life would be so much easier.